Use the survey monkey.

----- Original Message -----
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org
To: Randy Dreiling ; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team ; Craig Austin
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Sent: Tue Jul 22 12:18:47 2008
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race numbers again

I think their are some free online survey site out there. It would be good if their were someone with the marketing knowledge to put together a good survey.

I too would like more summer races and see the schedule move back. I'd also be willing to pay a premium to race at a fun venue in good weather.

From: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Date: 2008/07/22 Tue PM 12:43:23 CDT
To: Craig Austin , Randy Dreiling
Cc: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race numbers again

I like the idea of a poll. The only problem is everyone will say they would rather race in the sun shine.
 
I still like some type of a poll. Who will pay for it?

Cliff McCann 
Pistis Ministries
Pistis.us
541-659-4104

Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 09:54:42 -0700
From: austinc@exponent.com
To: raggy23@yahoo.com
CC: obra@list.obra.org
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Mt Bike race numbers again

Sorry to seem to be finger-pointing Randy. I appreciate all the hard work that goes into promoting races and love the opportunities we do have. I guess it seems like a chicken-and-egg question. Did the racers start telling you and Mike that they'd race more if you moved races to the muddy season? It had to start sometime, for some reason. Maybe that's what you were hearing from racers--that they didn't want to race in summer.  At some point, for some reason, races started moving earlier on the calendar. Of course the first few races will have good turnout, regardless of when they are, because we're always anxious for the season to start. All I'm saying (and it seems to be reflected by lots of very active racers) is that if the season started later, it could go later. Now that the bulk of the season is over by the beginning of June, only the most hardcore of mountain bikers will show up to race, and I think you know that's not how you make money. The non-hardcore racers then end up feeling intimidated even at the later races, as they know they've missed half or more of the season and aren't going to be competitive, so they just don't go.  I understand that you're in business, and as a business owner I would think you'd welcome all this free market research. I haven't seen any messages from the main promoters (you and Mike) asking OBRA: "If we move the start of the season to May and run it into August/September, will you do more or fewer races?" Seems like the answer to that question (it could even be set up as a poll) would be of great interest to those of you trying not to lose your shirt promoting races.  If you put it to the OBRA community as a whole, and the majority say they like the early season races and don't want to race in summer, then by all means continue with the current formula. But to me, the current formula doesn't seem to be working. Respectfully, Craig
From: Randy Dreiling [mailto:raggy23@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 9:36 AM
To: Craig Austin; RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Mt Bike race numbers again

Hold on please
I put on races for many years in July and August and I had low turn out and lost money the last five years because people stopped showing up in the summer
I do a great job of posting about my events, I have my dates set well in advance and I have flyers in shops all over the state
Promoters put on races when people show...when people showed in the summer (which clearly they don't anymore) we put on races then

What I see is a handful of long time die hart racers (most who have raced for years and remember when we raced in the summer) posting about starting later.
I do not see a majority by any stretch sorry .

Please don't speak for us promoters...I would WAY rather put on a race in the summer if only people showed...marking a course in the rain is a total pain in the ass.  Clean up after a muddy race is a total pain in the ass...reading muddy pull tags is a major pain in the ass....as you can see a summer race is better for a promoter, so it is not the promoters fault, as I said we put on races when people race.  

Weather people mean to or not it comes across as a racer vs promoter thing and remember most promoters race or have raced...we do this for the sport because we sure as hell don't make any money at it, with that said we should loose money either
Take care
 Randy Dreiling

----- Original Message ----
From: Craig Austin
To: RCJohnson1@attglobal.net; Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:44:14 AM
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

Is it just me, or do most of the racers who are chiming in seem to be asking for the series to start later, and most of the promoters wanting it to be run earlier? We've been hearing complaints about low turnout for a few years now, and it looks like the market is trying to speak; we'll race hard and show up for about 3 months. If those 3 months are miserable, fewer of us will show up. If those 3 months are pleasant to be on dirt trails, we'll show up in much greater numbers. Craig
From: obra-bounces@list.obra.org on behalf of Rick C Johnson
Sent: Tue 7/22/2008 8:24 AM
To: Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team
Cc: obra@list.obra.org; jpweathe@yahoo.com
Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?

The problem is that one could put races on the schedule later in the
season but that wouldn't change the fact that under the current schedule
people are tired. To cite a recent example it's the same reason why
political parties have very strict rules about the earliest a states
presidential primary can be held. If one secures the earliest possible
date they get all the attention. That sets the stage for everyone
clamoring to be right up there in the spotlight. Those coming later have
no chance to be significant.

Rick

Pistis Mountain Bike Racing Team wrote:

> The racers have nothing to loss. The promoter has everything to loss.
> I'm sure Peter lost money last weekend. If you aren't over the 100
> rider mark you are going to loss money. It's a bummer to put in 100
> hours on a race and have to cover part of the cost.
> 
> Don't get me wrong. I would love to see the races more spread out. I
> would love if we had 1 race in March and April, 2 in May, June, July
> and August and one in Septemper to finnish things off. I would make 8
> out of the 11 races at least. The problem is what promoter is willing
> to take the chance and move your race to July, August or Sept. Maybe
> one of you should take on a race in one of those months and show us
> how it is done. I will be there to support you.
>
> Cliff McCann
> Pistis Ministries
> Pistis.us
> 541-659-4104
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date: Tue, 22 Jul 2008 07:17:17 -0700
> From: jpweathe@yahoo.com
> To: obra@list.obra.org
> Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] Why weren't you at SkiBowl today to race?
>
>
> Agree with Rick and Craig 110% -- it's not fair to conclude everybody
> likes racing in cold mud based on this skibowl turnout.
>  I think racers (and their families) are simply burned out by now and
> just want to ride.
>
> In my case I chose to race in the point series and then do the Cream
> Puff, which meant seven mtb races prior to the end of June.  
>
> I did a mid-summer Skibowl race last year and, while the weather and
> trails were great, but my motivation was not -- after missing a few
> turns my race became a ride, along with a couple of other fellows.
>  Not so bad, but I don't really need to pay an entry fee to go for a ride!
>
> If the point series started later in the year I am almost certain
> there would be better turnout at all venues.  Look to the Colorado
> series as an example of a strong mtb series that works this way. 
>
> Why not give it a try for a year -- what do we have to lose?
>
> John W.
>
>
>
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