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Subject: RE: Dogs off leash
Date: 06/28/2001 12:54 AM
From: Mark Jenkins
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I'm not sure that the issue is dogs running 'amok' at all -- it has to do
with the assumed priority of various uses of the park and how the city
creates opportunities for events like bike races without shutting down other
uses entirely for the time of the event.

If it hadn't been a dog, it might have been a child or a pedestrian, or a
recreational cyclist -- children and pedestrians and cyclists are allowed in
the park, as far as I can tell, even on the course, during bicycle races,
and I'm not sure the issue is whether or not that activity is licit or
illicit.

My guess is that all parties, presumably OBRA and the city, negotiate the
extent of park closure for special events of this type, and that no
guarantees are made about the absolute integrity of the course. If such a
guarantee were made, it wouldn't be by the city. The city can't afford it,
OBRA can't afford it, and the situation we have is probably the best-case
compromise point that allows the event to proceed. I don't think individual
litigation will have the effect of making the courses safer -- it is far
more likely that everyone concerned will end up saying "why bother to do
this?"

Yes, the dog should've been leashed -- maybe you can make this about the
personal responsibility that person has for controlling their animal and
hold that person responsible for that event. This whole thread seems to be
an occasion for everyone to talk about who's ethical and responsible and
who's not. Or who's an idiot. Or who's a liberal. But that doesn't do
anything to mitigate the potential bad effects of a compromise between
organizers and venue that you, in order to race in that venue, have
implicitly agreed to.

People seem to think the compromise is still a good one, overall -- if they
didn't, the racing would stop, yes? How much safety and course marshalling
do you think that you're owed by virtue of whatever agreements are made? How
much priority should or does your agreement with the park grant you over
other users? Should the park be closed entirely for these events? Would
even be desirable?

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Message-ID: <0.700001901.847154495-951758591-993762720@topica.com>
From: "Schreck, George" <george.-@pacificorp.com>
Reply-To: george.-@pacificorp.com
To: rrr-@aol.com, ob-@topica.com
Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash
Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2001 14:11:00 -0700
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The problem is when people's dogs run amok how do we deal with that. A
number of cyclists were injured by that owner. What are we to do, just
accept the risk. How do I know you have your dog under control, and for
that matter, since an animal is involved, how can you guaranty that you do.
Am I supposed to take the risk that you can control your dog and are we all
supposed to cheerfully accept the consequences if you fail. I bet the
person who caused the accident thought he had his dog under control.
Apparently, you have decided that your desires and your dog's take
precedence over everyone else's and that you are above the law in all
respects. You have an incredible amount of self-importance to go with your
lack of consideration for others. Not a particularly positive attitude for
people living in a crowded society. I suppose on the basis for you
reasoning, that I should be allowed to speed through you neighborhood in my
sports car because I have decided that I can control my automobile and avoid
hitting pedestrians and other vehicles.

                          George C. Schreck
                           Phone: (503) 813-7211
                           Fax: (503) 813-7190


-----Original Message-----
From: rrr-@aol.com [ mailto:rrr-@aol.com <mailto:rrr-@aol.com> ]
Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2001 12:58 PM
To: ob-@topica.com
Subject: [OBRA Chat] Dogs off leash


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I find it amazing the reaction to dogs off leash. Have you ever thought why
we do it. It is for the simple pleasure, joy and excitement that it brings
to
the dog. The ability to run free. I see it as the same feeling I get from
riding down the street, instead of driving. Do I do this to angry motorist,
no? Do I let my dog off leash to anger other people, no? I do have a
responsibility to keep my dog under control though. But because a few dog
owners and bike owners act stupid, doesn't mean rest off us have to pay for
it. I will continue to let my dog off leash in a responsible manner, because

I love to see her eyes light up when I do. And I will continue to ride my
bike no matter how much motorist wish me off the road, because they find me
annoying. Was the guy an idiot, yes, but not all of us are.

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