| Subject: | Re: FW: George, Tell the Oregon Senate Committee not to weaken Colum |
| Date: | 08/31/2004 04:20 AM |
| From: | Dan H |
|
This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C48FA2.7CE9FD80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "People move from there, to here " If that keeps up, where will they live, work, & drive? It would be great if we could freeze the population & economy. I really wish it were possible but it's just not realistic. ----- Original Message ----- From: THOMAS HOFFMAN To: tris-@aol.com ; ob-@topica.com Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 5:08 PM Subject: RE: [OBRA Chat] FW: George, Tell the Oregon Senate Committee not to weaken Colum When my Parents moved me to Oregon I loved it. I loved the fact that Oregonians Put quality of life and Nature so high on the list of things to never disrupt. I love the fact that Oregon finds ways to keep our road sides clean with bottle bills and recycling programs. That they work to control Urban Sprawl, while preserving farm land and Natural Spaces. Can you imagine Portland's version of Urban Sprawl, i.e. Beaverton and Gresham stretching form Wilsonville to Salem? I say to all those that want to change those rules, go check out the planning in a city like Phoenix or San Jose or any others listed in this string. People move from there, to here for our quality of life. I wish they would leave the rules that made the former city such a stink hole back where they found them. Which is a long way of saying if you don't like the water, don't swim in our pool. Tom ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ From: tris-@aol.com [mailto:tris-@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:15 PM To: ob-@topica.com Subject: Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: George, Tell the Oregon Senate Committee not to weaken Colum Sorry, I meant to send this out to the list, not as a personal email. Perhaps you'd like to not lecture Doug, a European with significant Continental travel about these issues. And unless you bought your property significantly before the urban growth boundary went into effect, you knew the risks and are not now "being told what to do with your property". You went in knowing the rules and then thought you got to change them. Tough luck. People who buy houses next to PIR want to shut it down because of the noise. Too bad, you knew the score. I agree, having lived in multiple American cities (Memphis/Boston/DC/SF/Silicon Valley/Portland) that sprawl is probably in the top three issues relating to quality of life. It does "force" you to drive more by making the barriers to other methods of transport higher, via increased distance, higher traffic loads, and infrequent bus service (everybody drives, so why does the bus need to go by every 15 min?). At least one large recent study links increased sprawl to increased obesity due to the inability to walk/bike to errands, entertainment, school, etc. Look at the population in "walkable" cities (and I mean IN the city) such as NYC/DC/Boston/SF/Portland and compare it to the average suburban population. Or just go to the airport and watch the planes come in from almost any sprawling Midwest city like Minneapolis. The average heft of the passengers is pretty sobering. There's a reason that Portland aims for sustainable development. The majority of residents don't want to see it become the norm to drive 30 minutes to go to a big box store along wide faceless boulevards with cloned neighborhoods separated by the occasional Generica Strip Mall. The urban growth boundary may seem arbitrary to you, but many of us think it has a major role in keeping Portland more like Portland, and less like the Bay Area, Seattle, LA, Minneapolis, Kansas City, etc. Cheers, Ian Penner In a message dated 8/31/04 2:50:18 PM, sn-@charter.net writes: Doug wrote: "Maybe I've got it all wrong but, if you "push an ever increasing population into a confined area" people might be more inclined to not drive?" Have you been to some of Europe's bigger cities? They have traffic and pollution issues as well. Until urban planners stop designing cities to accommodate cars, and design them to accommodate people, cities will not be great places to live. Cramming people into tighter spaces designed for cars is called New York City. "Call me un American but, there are lots of alternatives to sitting behind the steering wheel of your car." There is nothing un American about not driving your car. There is however something un American about telling other Americans what they can or cannot do with their own property in an attempt to appease a minority of people. To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.orgTo unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.comTo respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C48FA2.7CE9FD80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit <!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN"> <HTML xmlns="http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40" xmlns:v = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:vml" xmlns:o = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word" xmlns:st1 = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"><HEAD> <META http-equiv=Content-Type content="text/html; charset=iso-8859-1"> <META content="MSHTML 6.00.2800.1170" name=GENERATOR><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE>v\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } o\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } w\:* { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } .shape { BEHAVIOR: url(#default#VML) } </STYLE> <![endif]--><o:SmartTagType name="place" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="State" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="City" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><o:SmartTagType name="PersonName" namespaceuri="urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:smarttags"></o:SmartTagType><!--[if !mso]> <STYLE> st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) } </STYLE> <![endif]--> <STYLE> <!-- /* Font Definitions */ @font-face {font-family:Tahoma; panose-1:2 11 6 4 3 5 4 4 2 4;} @font-face {font-family:Geneva; panose-1:0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0;} /* Style Definitions */ p.MsoNormal, li.MsoNormal, div.MsoNormal {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:12.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} a:link, span.MsoHyperlink {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} a:visited, span.MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:blue; text-decoration:underline;} pre {margin:0in; margin-bottom:.0001pt; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Courier New";} span.EmailStyle18 {mso-style-type:personal-reply; font-family:Arial; color:navy;} @page Section1 {size:8.5in 11.0in; margin:1.0in 1.25in 1.0in 1.25in;} div.Section1 {page:Section1;} --> </STYLE> </HEAD> <BODY lang=EN-US vLink=blue link=blue bgColor=#ffffff> <DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial size=2>"<FONT color=#000080>People move from there, to here "</FONT></FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>If that keeps up, where will they live, work, & drive?</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT face=Arial color=#000080 size=2>It would be great if we could freeze the population & economy. I really wish it were possible but it's just not realistic. </FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>----- Original Message ----- </DIV></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px"> <DIV style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black"><B>From:</B> <A title=t.h-@verizon.net href="mailto:t.hoff-@verizon.net">THOMAS HOFFMAN</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>To:</B> <A title=t-@aol.com href="mailto:tris-@aol.com">tris-@aol.com</A> ; <A title-@topica.com href="mailto:ob-@topica.com">ob-@topica.com</A> </DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Sent:</B> Tuesday, August 31, 2004 5:08 PM</DIV> <DIV style="FONT: 10pt arial"><B>Subject:</B> RE: [OBRA Chat] FW: George, Tell the Oregon Senate Committee not to weaken Colum</DIV> <DIV><BR></DIV> <DIV class=Section1> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">When my Parents moved me to <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Oregon</st1:place></st1:State> I loved it. I loved the fact that Oregonians Put quality of life and Nature so high on the list of things to never disrupt. I love the fact that <st1:State w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Oregon</st1:place></st1:State> finds ways to keep our road sides clean with bottle bills and recycling programs. That they work to control Urban Sprawl, while preserving farm land and Natural Spaces. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Can you imagine <st1:City w:st="on">Portland</st1:City>’s version of Urban Sprawl, i.e. Beaverton and Gresham stretching form Wilsonville to Salem? I say to all those that want to change those rules, go check out the planning in a city like <st1:City w:st="on">Phoenix</st1:City> or <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">San Jose</st1:place></st1:City> or any others listed in this string. People move from there, to here for our quality of life. I wish they would leave the rules that made the former city such a stink hole back where they found them. Which is a long way of saying if you don’t like the water, don’t swim in our pool. <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Tom <o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Arial color=navy size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <DIV> <DIV class=MsoNormal style="TEXT-ALIGN: center" align=center><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"> <HR tabIndex=-1 align=center width="100%" SIZE=2> </SPAN></FONT></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma">From:</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT face=Tahoma size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Tahoma"> tris-@aol.com [mailto:tris-@aol.com] <BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Tuesday, August 31, 2004 3:15 PM<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> ob-@topica.com<BR><B><SPAN style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> Re: [OBRA Chat] FW: George, Tell the Oregon Senate Committee not to weaken Colum</SPAN></FONT><o:p></o:p></P></DIV> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face="Times New Roman" size=3><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><o:p> </o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Geneva color=black size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva"><BR>Sorry, I meant to send this out to the list, not as a personal email.<BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=Geneva color=black size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva">Perhaps you'd like to not lecture Doug, a European with significant Continental travel about these issues. And unless you bought your property significantly before the urban growth boundary went into effect, you knew the risks and are not now "being told what to do with your property". You went in knowing the rules and then thought you got to change them. Tough luck. People who buy houses next to PIR want to shut it down because of the noise. Too bad, you knew the score.<BR><BR>I agree, having lived in multiple American cities (Memphis/Boston/DC/SF/Silicon Valley/Portland) that sprawl is probably in the top three issues relating to quality of life. It does "force" you to drive more by making the barriers to other methods of transport higher, via increased distance, higher traffic loads, and infrequent bus service (everybody drives, so why does the bus need to go by every 15 min?). At least one large recent study links increased sprawl to increased obesity due to the inability to walk/bike to errands, entertainment, school, etc. Look at the population in "walkable" cities (and I mean IN the city) such as NYC/DC/Boston/SF/Portland and compare it to the average suburban population. Or just go to the airport and watch the planes come in from almost any sprawling <st1:City w:st="on">Midwest city</st1:City> like <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Minneapolis</st1:place></st1:City>. The average heft of the passengers is pretty sobering.<BR><BR>There's a reason that <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">Portland</st1:place></st1:City> aims for sustainable development. The majority of residents don't want to see it become the norm to drive 30 minutes to go to a big box store along wide faceless boulevards with cloned neighborhoods separated by the occasional Generica Strip Mall. The urban growth boundary may seem arbitrary to you, but many of us think it has a major role in keeping <st1:City w:st="on">Portland</st1:City> more like <st1:City w:st="on">Portland</st1:City>, and less like the Bay Area, <st1:City w:st="on">Seattle</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">LA</st1:State>, <st1:place w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Minneapolis</st1:City>, <st1:State w:st="on">Kansas</st1:State></st1:place> City, etc.<BR><BR>Cheers,<BR>Ian Penner<BR><BR>In a message dated 8/31/04 2:50:18 PM, sn-@charter.net writes:<BR><BR>Doug wrote: "Maybe I've got it all wrong but, if you "push an ever increasing population into a confined area" people might be more inclined to not drive?"<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Have you been to some of <st1:place w:st="on">Europe</st1:place>'s bigger cities? They have traffic and pollution issues as well. Until urban planners stop designing cities to accommodate cars, and design them to accommodate people, cities will not be great places to live. Cramming people into tighter spaces designed for cars is called <st1:City w:st="on"><st1:place w:st="on">New York City</st1:place></st1:City>.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Geneva color=black size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva"><BR> <BR>"Call me un American but, there are lots of alternatives to sitting behind the steering wheel of your car."<BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial color=black size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">There is nothing un American about not driving your car. There is however something un American about telling other Americans what they can or cannot do with their own property in an attempt to appease a minority of people.</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Geneva color=black size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva"><BR><BR><BR><BR><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P> <P class=MsoNormal><FONT face=Geneva color=black size=2 FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Geneva"><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=Arial FAMILY="SANSSERIF"><SPAN style="FONT-FAMILY: Arial"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT face="Courier New" size=2><SPAN style="FONT-SIZE: 10pt">To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></PRE><PRE><FONT <PRE>To respond to the whole group send to ob-@topica.com. To respond to the list manager send to cmur-@obra.org To unsubscribe send to obra-uns-@topica.com</PRE></FONT></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML> ------=_NextPart_000_008B_01C48FA2.7CE9FD80-- |
